What does a lobbyist actually do? On this episode of From the Lobby, host Joanna Pasceri sits down with Jack O’Donnell, managing partner of O’Donnell & Associates, to pull back the curtain on the government affairs profession. Drawing on decades in Democratic politics — including stints on campaigns for Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer — O’Donnell explains how lobbying really works in Albany, why the profession is so often misunderstood, and how businesses, nonprofits, and cultural institutions can tell when it’s time to bring in outside help. From navigating the more than 15,000 bills introduced in a single legislative session to reframing lobbying as advocacy, the conversation offers a candid look inside one of New York’s leading government affairs firms.
Joanna Pasceri
It’s the burning question we hear a lot in this profession: what does a lobbyist actually do? Hi, everybody, and welcome to From the Lobby with Jack O’Donnell. This week we’re putting the spotlight on our own profession and answering some of the questions we hear most often about lobbying. Whether you’re a business owner, nonprofit leader in government, or simply curious about how public policy gets made, we’ll take you inside our world. What is lobbying? Who needs a lobbyist? And what does a good lobbying firm really do? Joining me as always is Jack O’Donnell, managing partner of O’Donnell & Associates, one of New York’s leading government affairs firms. Jack, welcome back to the lobby.
Jack O’Donnell
Great to be with you, Joanna.
Joanna Pasceri
So let’s start with you. You’ve spent decades around government and politics before founding O’Donnell & Associates. What drew you into government affairs and to build your own firm?
Jack O’Donnell
Good questions. I guess dumb luck isn’t a good answer. But the truth is I kind of grew up in and around government and politics. My father retired as a state supreme court justice. His father was a councilman and also on the bench. My mother was involved in law enforcement in the U.S. Attorney’s Office and the Department of Justice. I was just kind of around it and then got my start working in politics, in Democratic politics, and had the really cool experience of getting to work for so many smart, cool, innovative, problem-solving elected officials — from Kathy Hochul and Tish James to starting on campaigns for Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer. I was on the Schumer campaign, on his first Senate campaign, for a couple years, and then ran regional offices in New York and traveled around the state with him and got to do such really cool, exciting things, from helping hospitals get funded, to airports, to new airlines started, and expanding cultural institutions and road money. Say what you want about Chuck Schumer — and a lot of people, especially people in the Democratic Party, are doing that right now — but he has been one of the most successful elected officials of the last generation, certainly here in New York.
He would tell us this story about a colleague who was the congressman, and he had a town hall meeting and people complained about the garbage. And he said, well, the garbage isn’t my job. He didn’t get reelected. The point was, whether it’s specifically in your brief, where does county government end and state government begin and federal government — in the end, it’s your job to solve the problem. I got to do that for a long time in and around government, and then through a number of things, some campaigns, I had some health challenges. I ended up having some friends who invited me to be part of their government relations firm. And I realized, Joanna, I got to do the really cool part of government — solve problems, help people navigate that red tape, save the hospital, the museum, the airport, get the road funded, make really cool things happen. And I wasn’t maybe going door to door every Saturday morning or Sunday night. So I really got into this part of it where I could work on a bunch of different projects, and being on this side of it, I got to pick what they were. So they get to be things that I’m excited about, that I’m passionate about, and that are really the important things that I believe New York State needs to do or be a part of. That’s what government affairs, that’s what lobbying is to me — solving those problems, or more importantly, helping the people who have the expertise. I don’t have the expertise in healthcare or in higher ed or in transparency. I do have the expertise in government, and I know how to take their good ideas and help get them funded or get them turned into a law that allows them, the subject matter experts, to do what they do and do it well.
Joanna Pasceri
Let’s break it down just a little bit more. When someone asks you, what does a lobbyist actually do, how do you answer that?
Jack O’Donnell
One of the ways I explain it is we broadly help people interact with government. That can be a big piece, like passing a law or stopping one. It can be a big piece around a major economic development project that needs funding, but also needs permitting and other approvals. But it’s also everything in between. I kind of explain it the same way: yes, you can do your taxes, but if you want to do them well, and if it’s complicated, you’re going to hire an accountant who’s an expert. If you are dealing with the law, you are going to hire a lawyer. And sometimes that’s to go to court, sometimes that’s to deal with an insurance company, sometimes that’s as simple as helping you draft a contract or read over the contract before you sign it. Those things that you use a lawyer for with the law is what people use us for with government. It is everything from, hey, I don’t know if this affects me, can I get some clarity, to we have to create a whole new section of law to deal with the things that are happening in your industry. So if government touches you — and it does — you can’t live, breathe, go to school, or do business in the state of New York without government being involved with a lot of what you do. We can help you manage that.
Joanna Pasceri
People who don’t understand lobbying often see it as a negative thing. It’s often portrayed in a negative light. Why is that?
Jack O’Donnell
Because sometimes that’s what you hear about. All too often, you hear about someone gives their lobbyist money, they give it to an elected official, and then you’re supposed to get what you want. But that is so not the way the world works today. And frankly, if you’re hearing about it today, it’s because someone’s been — or a bunch of people have been — arrested for it. That’s not what it is today. I also think some of this feeds into the cynicism that people rightfully feel about government. Government can be opaque and complicated, and so much of it is shrouded in mystery, where people say, I know what’s happening, just trust me. Our team here at O’Donnell & Associates tries to approach that differently. That’s why we have these conversations and put them out. That’s why we write this Monday Morning Memo — to kind of open the doors. Because I am a real big believer that what drives things in Albany and New York and Washington right now, so much of that is facts. It’s information, it’s data. It’s understanding what a legislator cares about, so you connect what you’re trying to do with what’s happening in her district and why it matters. Relationships are vitally important, but they are only the first step in this. Having the trust of elected officials is really important, but again, is only a part of this. Being able to figure out a path — often a creative or innovative or different path — for you to get what you need to get done is exactly what we try to do. And hopefully at least our clients were able to dispel some of that cynicism.
Joanna Pasceri
So let’s say I’m leading a business or a nonprofit or a cultural organization. How do you know when it’s time to bring in a lobbying firm?
Jack O’Donnell
Well, I have this inherent bias that everyone should have a lobbyist. I’m mostly kidding, Joanna, but I think it depends a lot on the scale and scope of what you’re trying to do. We will hear from a lot of folks who will say, look, I’m trying to do this, and I ran into Assembly Member Axe at Wegmans and they said they would help, so I don’t need your help. Well, that’s great. It just is that this is a full-time job, and 200 other people ran into that same Assembly member at Wegmans and asked her for help. It is a lot more complicated than that. So it starts with the scope of what you’re trying to do, but usually we can design a lobbying strategy that meets and mirrors that scope. You don’t need the gold plan if you just have a couple small problems if you’re a small nonprofit. But if you are dealing with government — again, that’s the key and sort of the common denominator here — unless the government has a program that specifically exists just for you, come to us and we can help you navigate it. Because it’s not enough to just apply for something anymore. It’s not enough to just have a good idea. 213 state legislators in New York, plus the number of people in the executive chamber and their staffs — and there are a lot of really good ideas. But how does your idea go from something that legislators like to something they’re actually voting on? And even then, I have to explain to people, well, it’s not enough that we pass the bill. We now need to get it implemented. We need the rules and regulations to be written out, and then we need them to be enforced. Unless you have the time and space and relationships to do that, we help.
Joanna Pasceri
What should clients look for before deciding who to hire?
Jack O’Donnell
That’s a really good question. Look, there are a lot of people in this industry, and like a lot of places, most of them are really good people who want to do the right thing. But I think it really starts with a comfort. It starts with that feeling that this is someone I want to talk to, or I’m willing to talk to at 6 a.m. if I have a crisis, or they’re calling me to say we have a problem. Is it someone that you want to deal with? Do they share your values? And then do they understand and have a real concrete plan on how to help you? If their plan to help you is to just talk to the legislators who already represent you, that’s not good enough. You can do that on your own, and they’re going to want to help you because you’re a constituent. What’s their plan to talk to the committee chair? What’s their plan to talk to people across the state? What’s their plan to get you to decision-makers? And what’s their track record? Have they done similar projects? Have they done hard things? Can they get them done? And do their clients match your values? That’s a big part of this. You don’t want to be fighting for one thing and find out that you’re at a firm that has partners that are fighting against it. That’s something that drives me particularly crazy about Albany, and there’s way too much of it. But asking those questions and getting good answers is a great place to start.
Joanna Pasceri
Interesting. What’s the biggest misconception people have about lobbying?
Jack O’Donnell
You know, back to my whole, you pay me, I donate some money, and things happen. Anything with any substance is just so much more complicated than that. In the last session, there were over 15,000 bills introduced. So it’s not just getting started, it’s actually getting it done. And getting it done takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of meetings, a lot of conversation. It takes some compromise, some innovation. I guess that’s a long way around to saying this is actually really hard work.
Joanna Pasceri
It certainly is. I’ve seen that firsthand. Any final thoughts about this?
Jack O’Donnell
I guess my first thought is to reframe it a little. And I find when I do that with people, they understand it better. Lobbying, again, can be a pejorative term. Advocacy is not. Whether that is supporting your local school, saying people should back them, or writing a letter about getting your sidewalk fixed, it’s just simple advocacy. Our clients run the gamut, from fighting for the environment to creating jobs, protecting workers, cultural institutions, really detailed medical and stuff in the healthcare field, nonprofits who are out there literally fighting and saving lives. And really what we do is we advocate for them.
Joanna Pasceri
Well, Jack, great talk. Thanks for taking us along for an inside look at lobbying. If today’s conversation sparked a question or some interest, you can learn more and connect with us at odonnellsolutions.com. And while you’re there, sign up for Jack’s Monday Morning Memo, our weekly newsletter covering the biggest developments in New York and Washington. It’s designed to help you understand not just what’s happening, but why it matters. And there’s no paywall. Thanks for listening, everyone. We’ll see you next time from the lobby with Jack O’Donnell.
Jack O’Donnell
Great to be with you.
